The folks over at Outlaw Fasteners are really excited about their new deck screws, and boast that they have come out with The World’s Best Screw.
It’s not just Outlaw that are excited about their new screws – a few weeks ago I received an email from an editor at another publication asking for my opinion about these intriguing un-strippable screws.
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Could Outlaw screws really be that much better than what’s currently available?
Outlaw sent over a pamphlet, some sample screws, and their new UniGrip screwdriver bit for us to test out.
Here’s a somewhat cheesy intro video:
The Hype
No more stripped screws.
No more dropped screws.
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No more screw wobble.
No more deck board jacking.
No more bit changes.
No more pilot holes.
No more hole splinters.
Less frustration, quicker work, saved time.
Reality Check
In the literature Outlaw sent over, there is a chart that compares their fasteners to slotted, Robertson (square), Phillips, and Torx screw styles. There, Outlaw points out that their UniGrip driving bit engages their fasteners with 18 points of contact, compared to at most 6 points of contact with Torx drive bits and screws. This is the only marketing claim I find to be disagreeable, and that’s because I feel the comparison of points of contact to be factual but misleading.
So let’s take another look at Outlaw’s marketing claims.
No more stripped screws. True, at least compared to Phillips screws.
No more dropped screws. True, at least when driving new screws, and without magnets.
No more screw wobble. True, there’s no room for side-to-side play, which allows for more precise placement.
No more deck board jacking. I didn’t test for this, but can see how it works.
No more bit changes. True, thanks to the UniGrip design.
No more pilot holes. True, but only when working with certain materials (such as decking boards).
No more hole splinters. True, the countersinking head works quite well.
UniGrip Driving System
The UniGrip driving system is based on a stepped hexagonal design. Smaller fasteners have a 2-step recess, larger ones have a wider 3-step recess to allow for higher torques.
I should mention that bit-fastener engagement at the widest hex step seems to be a little shallow. This doesn’t seem to affect screw driving one bit, and if the larger screws had deeper 3rd step recesses, their heads might become comically large. Still, it’s an observation worth mentioning.
Outlaw’s UniGrip screw fitment is designed to hold tight and never cam out.
The Screws
As mentioned, forget about the 18 driving points part, it’s misleading. But to Outlaw’s credit, a substantial amount of engineering went into their new screws.
First, there’s the UniGrip screw head that ensures you can use the same screwdriver bit for any Outlaw screw. On the under side of the screw heads are rigid ribs that helps the screws sit a little better in self-countersunk holes without requiring a separate operation.
At the opposite end of the screws, self-drilling points allow you to skip over the need to drill pilot holes. You should still drill pilot holes when working near edges or with harder wood materials, but even then self-drilling points are a boon.
The sharp self-drilling tips, 1/2-length partial threads (compared to 2/3-length partial threads) and self-cleaning ribbed knurls help prevent board jacking, where the a top board lifts up as the screw starts to engage the bottom board.
Right now there are two material options – stainless steel or steel with ACQ finish coating for use in pressure-treated lumber. These fasteners have corrosion resistant enough to have passed 1,000 hour salt spray testing certification.
Testing
Only a couple of sample fasteners were provided for testing, but there were enough for me to get a good feel for the screws and the engineering behind them.
The threads are thin and sharp. Overall I found the screws to be very well made. Actually, they’re right up there with the best wood screws I have ever used.
Kickstarter
Outlaw’s Kickstarter campaign launched today, as the company is seeking funding to produce a truck-load of screws.
Pledges start at $5 for the Outlaw bottle opener keychain, and $25 for a 1-pound box. There are some interesting perks at higher funding levels. $45 gets you a 1-pound box of screws and laser-cut six-pack caddy kit. There is also a deck chair kit, a 20-pound box level, and if you pledge $5K the product team will come to your house and build you a deck.
Order Now(via Kickstarter)
As this is a Kickstarter crowd-funding campaign, you will not be charged anything if the project does not exceed the inventors’ funding goal by October 30th, 2013.
Should You Buy?
Will you need a box of high quality deck screws for a Spring project around March of 2014?
Initially, screws will be available in lengths of #8 x 1-5/8″, #8 x 2″, #9 x 2-1/2″ and #9 x 3″. After the Kickstarter campaign, Outlaw screws and UniGrip bits will be available via their website.
More Info: Outlaw Fasteners
First Impression
These new screws seem incredibly well designed, and do offer a lot of advantages compared to standard Phillips flat head screws. Compared to Torx and Robertson screws, Outlaw fasteners don’t require bit changes as you switch screw sizes or even lengths.
As mentioned, I was pleased to find the screws to be well made.
But here’s the problem – regardless of how the Kickstarter campaign goes, Outlaw will still need to convince retailers and users about the merits of these screws. Robertson and Torx fasteners are easier to work with than Phillips, yet Phillips screws remain popular.
In order for the product to be successful, even if fully funded via KickStarter, the company will have to 1) develop a variety of compatible bit styles (high hardness for common drills and power screwdrivers, and high strength for impact drivers) and sizes (1″, 2″, and possibly longer), 2) convince big-box retailers to carry their fasteners in multiple sizes and quantities, and 3) convince installers and tradesmen to change their fastener preferences.
Ultimately, I feel that the UniGrip driving system and the screws’ design features elevate these new screws above plain Jane deck screws.
I am crossing my fingers that this time next year I’ll be able to find these screws at the local big box store, preferably at a lower price if t-shirts and other swag aren’t involved. Hopefully, if that happens, Outlaw will have found a way to design UniGrip truss-head wood screws as well.
Thank you to Outlaw for providing the review sample unconditionally. Review samples are typically given away, donated, or retained for benchmark and comparison purposes.
Disclosure: To help promote their Kickstarter funding campaign, Outlaw has also purchased a media ad on ToolGuyd for the month of October 2013 (look for it on the sidebar). This review/first look is NOT a part of that arrangement, and was largely written up before the potential for an ad arrangement was first discussed. As always, this review presents nothing but our honest opinions.
Stan
Stuart,
I am interested in this product, but I do have a question. What is the country of origin of these screws though? I am sure the bit driver is made overseas, but are these Outlaw deck screws American made potentially?
Cool review Stuart.
Stuart
I’m not sure, but I’ll ask. I thought I saw a reference somewhere that these are made in the USA, but I can’t seem to find that source anywhere.
Stan
If you could please Stuart, ask your source please. This is a cool idea, but I am willing to get behind this more if this was actually made in America.
Stuart
Their initial response is that development is due in the USA and largely with USA-made equipment, and that screws have been produced in the USA, Europe, and Asia. I’m waiting to hear back about where the final product will be made.
Stan
Thank you very much Stuart for checking out that information. I figured there was a chance these screws might be USA made, but then again, I am not surprised at all if these aren’t.
Thank you very much Stuart.
Jon
It does appear that they put quite a bit of work into the design of these screws, but I also agree gaining traction in the marketplace will be difficult. I just finished rebuilding a deck on my house and used ~4 boxes of premium decking screws I purchased at Menards for $23/5 lb box. From 1-1/4″ to 3-1/2″ screws all used a T25 bit. I didn’t strip one screw or drop more than a handful ( I wasn’t using a magnetic bit for most of it). I can see some of the features of these being advantageous for professionals ordering large quantities, but just can’t see them getting very far in the homeowner/DIY market.
mnoswad1
I think that the diy market is the only market that these would sell in. Pro deck builders ( use that term very loosely) are buying the cheapest and in bulk and collated to work in their drivers auto feed gun.
The packaging also clearly communicates to weekend diy’s.
Cool design, but I wish the US could just stick with one driver bit. In Canada its square drive, in europe its all torx, in the US its STILL phillips……unfortunately.
I use composite deck screws on cedar 1×4 window trim. those screws are the best at producing a clean flush screw head in any material, not just composite decking.
Stuart
I think there’s a greater chance of widespread metric system adoption than Phillips screws losing their dominance.
Phil @ Outlaw
Thanks for the compliment on the packaging. It has a hidden feature you can’t see…. the labels will peel off and let you reuse the container for storage (when empty) and they are designed to stack neatly (aka Green Packaging)
We will have bulk, collated and composite versions of the screw by the time these are in the stores next year. And, we’ll have all of the colors as well.
Like you said, the USA has stuck with Phillips a long time and all of us have sore shoulders and the stripped screws to prove it. And, if we’re going to make a change, let’s change to a single bit solution that last longer and will fit on your key chain (we designed a killer magnetic key chain holder for the UniGrip bit).
Hang Fire
I don’t care how carefully it is designed, if it is driven into a piece of wood without a pilot hole, it will displace wood and there is a chance of splintering or cracking.
The driver looks interesting, but as Jon noted, a larger Torx bit is already plenty good enough.
I wish them luck, but they are up against some tough competition.
JeffD
“Oh, we’re sorry you lost your Unigrip bit. What? Your store doesn’t carry replacement bits? No problem, that will be $9.95, plus tax, and shipping, of course.”
Stuart
That’s something I was first concerned about, but a 5/32″ hex bit fits the second step hex recess perfectly. Straight-tipped, and not a ball end.
Jonathan
Fascinating . Honestly, while the bit may prevent cam-out, etc. It is one more bit that I have add to my tool box. While I am little more than a jack-of-all trades/ weekend warrior /+DIY’er+. With regards to striped heads and cam-out. I can’t remember the last stripped head, since I started using my favorite go to tool: Dealt 12V impact driver, compact, portable, powerful, and belt-able. I have broken a couple of screw heads, but have yet to strip a head (yet it is useful in removing stripped heads). While not brush-less, it fills a nice sweetspot I have used it on automotive repairs (suspension and frame bolts factory torqued far above the rated power of the driver.). As well as home repairs and remodeling. While I am a huge supporter of free enterprise and personal initiative , sadly in today’s marketplace environment, my personal perspective is that Outlaw screw’s face a David vs. Goliath challenge in order to ever be available in your local box store. While the merits and ingeguinity of Outlaw screws are appluadable, I remain optimistic, yet that small voice in my head wispher’s pessimistic thoughts. My current setup (DeWalt 12V impact driver which hangs from belt–yet is light enough that it does not pull my pants down). While it lacks a built in bit holder the space between the belt clip and the side of the battery retain a bit securely.
joe
True but a 12v driver (which I own too) is not the same as going, with my DCF895, 2850RPM…at those speeds, the bit can easily jump off the screw head on a screw head designed for slippage. Not to mention the higher torque would mean the probability of philips tip jumping off is greater…that is why some people love hexed head screws…but they have not caught up with the new world. It is slowly, but it should go faster.
To recap, at slow speeds, it is hard to strip a head…but you are not taking in consideration the benefit of a screw head “gripping” the bit too (like the video showed it held the driver too). Try screwing in a 3 inch screw at an angle to screw in a 4×4 and you will see the benefits of that…or just screw in a 3 inch screw straight down with out holding the screw and see how you have to hold the screw, bit, or driver very steady to get it to bite the wood.
Many benefits to this screw.
Noah
I’m pretty sure McFeelys has almost the same screw, except in Robertson drive.
We don’t need another screw drive style when Robertson and Torx already exist.
Jerry
I really like the idea of one driver, for all screw sizes. A very clever idea, indeed. Even more clever, if you can use a standard hex driver in a pinch. However, I agree, it will be all uphill, to get acceptance. I have been using Torx drive for a while now, with great results (I have made a personal decision to boycott Phillips screws wherever possible). But still often find myself swapping bits. Not a big deal if I’m doing all the work myself, but it seems whenever I work with someone, and I need to swap bits, the other one is in someone’s pocket, on the other side of the house. My brother in law is notorious for that (as well as losing the loose bit). If they become available in stores by our next project, I may try them the next time I will be working with him, just to ease the aggravation factor.
joe
wow. I have never seen a head screw hold the weight of a drill before. Just on that a lone, I am sold.
I have mentioned and have researched this before…regarding flat head screws (with the slot) and philip head screws. Turns out it is actually very old technology…the philips head was made and designed for slippage…now who likes that 🙂 ?
The flat head is just too old to even still be made…i hate those screws that I through them away and replace them with philips head.
But this screw is evolutionary and people should go out and buy a bucket full of them and try them out…i know I will.
Thank you outlaw for trying to phase out philips just like it did flat head screws.
I good package would be a box of screws that comes with one bit.
Stuart
Actually, Makita’s Impact Gold Phillips bits fit securely enough that you can do this at a slight angle. It might be possible with Robertson and other tight-fitting bits as well.
Chris
I think this design is a little late to the party. Deck fastening systems now are all about maximum concealment, conceal loc biscuits or the cortex system comes to mind. If concealment isn’t an issue why not just go with a quick drive system?
fred
When I was active in the business – we did quite a number of decks – sometimes having 3-4 jobs per week going on in the peak season. We’d lay out some options for our customers – including construction materials and fastening techniques. Some customers wanted high-end unusual designs, materials and concealed fasteners – which came with extra time and cost. At the other end we did quite a few nice looking – cedar decks using stainless steel finish-head (Robertson drive) screws from collated strips used in our Senco screw guns. Maybe I’m too old the try a new trick – but this screw seems to miss both ends of the market. As others have said – the concept for the drive system looks innovative and neat – but the market may not be there.
Robert
These may in fact be a decent fastener. It seems however, that there is a never ending list of changes and so called “improvements” in drive types. While there may be some merit to that, I believe that yet another proprietary system with brand exclusivity is really what it’s about. It’s usually more about getting you locked into the brand and future sales than any measurable increase in performance.
I’m saying that from the standpoint of the drive only, not necessarily the quality of the product overall.
Phil
Hello Robert (and the rest of the ToolGuyd comment providers),
We’re working hard for the guy that has the drill in his hand!
We are really happy that all of you are interested enough in our product to provide feedback. Seriously, we want to build the most innovative fasteners ever imagined and to change the way the world screws and your input helps us do that.
All of our planned products will include the UniGrip drive because its the best drive we’ve ever seen, tested or heard of. It does it all and the pricing is exactly the same as all the other drives on the market. We can’t change the way the world screws if we charge too much!
Here’s our commitment to all of you: We’ll design and build the coolest new screws with the best drive ever invented (UniGrip) and we’ll work hard to make sure our products get on every shelf, so they are available when you need them and at a price you can afford (ie. equal to the current market pricing). If you have any thoughts that might help us, fire away.
Team Outlaw
Stan
Assuming you are actually affiliated with Outlaw products I personally have question for you. Now let me preface, your video was very original in my opinion and actually wasn’t more of the same marketing video with all sorts of stupid buzzwords.
My question is, where are the screws made or in other words, what is the country of origin of these screws? I can pretty much guess where the driver is made, so no need for that though.
If you are who you say you are then certainly this shouldn’t be an issue to answer.
Phil @ Outlaw
Hello Stan,
I am part of the team at Outlaw, so thanks for the compliment on the video. The design and prototypes are all home grown. We’ve talked with plants in the U.S., Asia and Europe, but haven’t made the final decision on the location of the first production run as of this writing.
We want to build the best possible screw and make it available to as many people as possible, so the manufacturing is critical and you can rest assured that we will be extremely diligent in our selection and monitoring of the final production facilities.
KL
I commend them for trying to build a better mousetrap but not sure it’s necessary. I went with Fastenmaster square drives on my deck and maybe partially stripped two of them using a standard drill (this was just before impact drivers became all the rage). Still the “stripping” was not an issue and I was able to fully seat the screws with a bit more pressure on the drill.
I also agree about just one more bit. Fastenmaster already tried/tries this with their spider drive and I think it’s stupid.
I am, at least, glad to hear there are others who hate Phillips drive as much as I do.
Dan
I don’t build a lot of decks and when I do I don’t think I ever change out bits to accommodate different screw types however if you could produce a series of pocket hole screws that would be fantastic. Whenever I’m building a set of built in cabinets with face frames I always end up with different bits in my pockets at the end of the day……..
Phil @ Outlaw
Hello Dan,
Thanks. We’ll put those pocket hole screws in our development cue and see if we can lessen the number of bits you have to carry!
Team Outlaw
Victoria - Melfast.com
The price is reasonable. I think I ever heard this brand but I never know the company is producing fasteners. I have several questions, where does Outlaw marketing its products? is there a discount for bulk buying? and how many awards they get until now?
Gawie Pretorius
Good day Outlaw team.
I do really like the new screws,it’s just wat we need from my side i just want to know when can i start marketing
and sell this product in South Africa before everybody jumps on the bandwagon in South Africa. Can you guys send me more info on the future of this product and if any future franchises will be available or sole in Port for South Africa is available.
Thank You
Gawie Pretorius
[email protected]
Bruce
I’d hang up Philips in a heart beat. Curious, is the tool bit harden? And you’ll need to have the right screw for any typical board thickens, since this has a self cleaning section…the top of screw to the bottom of scs will determine the screw size…
william l bishop
I don’t see any advantage to the deeper driver sockets. Torque is proportional to the diameter of the driver so the deeper sockets, being smaller in diameter, will provide far less torque to the screw. Most of the driver load (torque) will be carried by the outer driver socket.
maine
This reveiw is two years old and still there are no screws on the market and for good reason. I got some of these to test and they are not worth looking at. They look good and if your standing by your bench ( or tail gate of your truck ) and use these they seem great, but take them out in the real world and use them. Your going to change your mind fast. Move off to the side a little and the bit just spins on the screw, once that happens our in for some fun trying to get it back in, particulaly if you using one hand to use the driver. Your going to be looking for some other screws to use real quick.
Stan
Maine, I figured this would be a cool idea, but never actually the type that actually follows through. Seems to be the type of product that works well in ideal situations, but not practical any other way.
Phil J
I got two boxes of these for a Christmas present and used them to build an extension to my backyard deck. I thought they were going to be like a novelty, but DAMN, they worked better than I could have imagined. I used about 900 of them and didn’t drop or strip any of them. I still have the goofy grin I got on about the 20th screw, when I realized how well they worked. I am hoping they can get the line expanded and get it in some more retail stores (my wife got mine on line).
Tom
What ever happened to this company? They have no social media posts in the last year. Are they still around?
Michael
Somehow the design of this screw looks copied from the original design of “the world’s best screw” invented in Milton Ontario Canada by Robertson . The claim of best screw is already taken ….
Juan
How do they compare to Motorq, Torx plus, Torq-set or XZN?
Nathan L
I think Outlaw is dead in the water. I was looking for some good screw brands today and read this same post (note that it’s from four years ago). The Outlaw web page is there, but there are no screws for sales and the last update seems to have been more than a year ago.